From The Press Box: James Horncastle

In the latest in our weekly series with members of the media, The Athletic's Serie A correspondent James Horncastle joins us to discuss the major issues surrounding the league right now.

We spoke to Horncastle about his new role, some of the stories he has reported on so far - along with his own personal history with Italian football and the city of Rome...

First of all James, how is work looking for you right now? How has the lockdown affected things?

“There’s a mix of things going on, really. Because on the one hand, people want to know what the latest updates are, and when football’s coming back. They want to know what protocols teams have in place for all their players, they want to know if the players are happy to be going back… all that sort of stuff.

“And then, I mean, this week for example it's the 10th anniversary of Inter Milan’s treble. So I've done a big interview around that too. So there's more historical topics to cover as well.

“There wasn't anyone writing specifically about Italian football for The Athletic before I joined, so there's a chance to tell stories that maybe haven't appeared on the site before. That can be anything from speaking to Edin Dzeko about his favourite goals, for example, or an interview I just did with Gaetano Castrovilli, the Fiorentina player, who has had a breakout season. So it’s a real mix.

“I’m not sure how different it would be if we had games because the big thing about The Athletic is that we're different, in that we don't do match reports – we’re not so focused on the games itself, but the issues around them. So it’s nice, but it’s very busy."

What was it that persuaded you to join The Athletic? How did they pitch the opportunity to you?

“The attraction of it to me was that they said, ‘We will give you the time and the resources to do the best work of your career’.

“They wouldn't be chasing stuff from me - say at full-time when, traditionally speaking, journalists have to be already filing a match report or player ratings. Instead they would allow us to take a more considered approach, and go down and talk to people in the mixed zone, or wherever we can get them, and compose something that I think is much more meaningful - rather than something that everyone else is doing.

“So I think what appealed to me is that they accept that we have to deliver something different, which perhaps includes bringing as many voices to a story as possible and speaking to as many people and giving as well-rounded a view of a game, a player, or a moment as we can.

“For journalists, that sort of opportunity is manna from heaven really.”

Does the new role preclude you from doing other stuff, for example with BT’s European football shows?

“So they still allow me to do that sort of work. I can still do some radio for the BBC. As long as I'm credited as being from The Athletic, I can continue to do that. I think word of mouth is important for a site that, in the UK at least, is still quite new. In the US it is not, it has been around for about four years now. But exposure is important.

"Hearing us on TV, on radio or on podcasts is important to promote your work and also just to make people more aware of the site and that's out there and it's there's some really interesting stuff on it.”

So what are some of your favourite stories you have done so far?

“Well – I really did enjoy the first one I did. Which was going to watch Francesco Totti play eight-a-side.

“I think that was something different – because we have this idea about how remote Hall of Famers, legends, whatever you want to call them... that it's very difficult to get access to them. So the idea that someone like him would be playing on pitches around Rome every Monday night and playing against - well, some semi-pros, but mostly just normal people, it just blew my mind.”

How did you pursue that story? You even ended up in the dressing room with his team…

“Yeah, how did I do that?! It feels like a long time ago now!

"Okay, so do you remember the game towards the end of Totti’s career – where he came on against Torino and scored twice in the final few minutes to win the game? There’s an image from that, that’s kind of ingrained in my mind, when the camera pans to a fan in the crowd who is just crying his eyes out.

“Anyway, that guy was called Alessio – and I met him as part of a feature I worked on for IMG, who produced Serie A’s world feed at the time. And it turns out his brother works for the soccer school that hosts these games that Totti plays in.

“So I got in touch with Alessio, he put me in touch with his brother. And then he put me in touch with the president of the league, and we arranged access from there. I got the train from Piramide [in Rome] out to Ostia Antica, and then walked over to Totti’s soccer school. I met the head of the league and he basically said to me, ‘Do you want to come into the dressing room?’

“So we went in, and there’s Totti and his team – on that night it included Antonio Floro Flores, another former Serie A player. So, yeah, I got to stand in the dressing room as the coach gave Totti and his teammates a motivational speech. And from there I watched the game from behind the bench, which was brilliant.

“So it was the sort of thing that I wouldn’t have even known where to start with it, if I hadn’t met Alessio a while ago. And then I think I saw him posting stuff from these games on Instagram, and so from there I asked him a few questions about it… and it went from there!”

Do you think that’s a perfect example of what The Athletic wants from you? Did you pitch them that angle – or just pursue it and present the final results?

“One of the fun things about working for The Athletic is that they believe in long-form journalism. Anyone who has worked for a newspaper or online over the last decade has probably been told countless times to file 800 words – because that’s as long as anyone will pay attention. With The Athletic, they believe that long form journalism, if done well, keeps people on the page and keeps people coming back as long as the stories are really, really captivating.

“What fits the brief really is a story that has been untold and really needs to be told. And you also have to think, for me having lived in Italy, I maybe take some stories for granted that others might not. So there are a lot of judgement calls.

“It's quite easy to assume that people live in the same bubble as you do and follow all the same things that you do - when in actual fact they don't. So if you can bring some of these stories to a wider audience ... I think there's merit to that and I think it's also good for the league as well, in terms of reminding people of how many wild and insane stories there are in Italy.

“I think, as a content provider, it’s almost unmatched really. And it really hasn’t realised its full potential in terms of entertainment value.”

Where does that passion you have for Italian football come from then?

“So I’ve always been passionate about it. Growing up in the UK, it was free to air on Channel Four [the show was 'Football Italia'] – Serie A was the best league in the world at that time, and there was a preview/review show on Saturday and then a game on Sunday. So I would tune in for both and it really became something that I got into, more than any other sport or league. So it was always in there, in the back of my mind.

“And then I went to university, and I met my now-wife, who had just spent a year living in Rome. And for her, that was kind of her university experience - she didn't want to go to university after that, because she wanted to stay in Rome, she had made so many great friends there. So during my time at university we would go to Rome, almost every break there was – and then we graduated we moved there. I was there for four years in the end. I lived in Monteverde Vecchio.”

And you learned Italian – another vital tool in getting a lot of the stories you do…

“Yeah, my Italian came from that. I didn't learn it at university. I enrolled on a module in first year to impress my wife, who was then my girlfriend, and I really didn't stick to it. And then when we moved I had to learn Italian, for work purposes. Again, I wasn't a journalist at that time - I kind of did anything and everything.

"I would pick up the papers every morning and read Gazetta della Sport, Corriere della Sera… everything. And so it was that, as well as the interactions with people who I worked with, that was how I learned Italian.

“It was only through the full immersion from living there that I learned Italian. But I also think it was really important in helping me to really understand the culture and dynamic of the city, and the idea of what it means to play for the club - and what the fans are like.

"Some of the wit and humour that you see in stadiums, you understand from living there and travelling around the country. So the language helps, but also having that context and familiarity with what it is like for the people playing and living in Italy – because it’s completely unique.”

Do you think Rome is unique in the way it is with the club and its fans – even compared to other Italian cities?

“Yeah, I think people still underestimate how difficult it is to win a championship in Rome - and how difficult it is for players to to perform week-in, week-out with the kind of pressure that comes from living in a capital city – and one where the teams, traditionally, haven’t won many titles. So historically the seasons would often come down to who won the derby.

“And, if you go back to the last time these two teams won the league title, one team essentially won the title because the other had done it in the year before – Lazio in 2000 and then Roma a year later. Roma were just, like, ‘We can't let that happen’ and they won it the next year.

"But I think every city has its own peculiarities. Milan has a great continental football tradition. Turin is a workers’ city, and that comes through for both Juventus and Torino. Florence, a one-club city… I have an affinity for one-club cities like that, and Naples, where the passion for the club is so incredible and the fans are so demanding as well.

“That's one of the great things about my job, I suppose, is the travel element and finding out more about new places and certainly not looking at them as simply holiday destinations, but as places that have a real character - and if you can get under the skin of the city, you can find out what really makes it tick.”

If I’ve picked up correctly from some of the pieces you’ve written, those four years you spent in Rome actually coincided with those Scudetto triumphs. What do you remember about that time?

“Well the stadium, for example, was reminiscent of what it is now for big Champions League nights – except that was every single Sunday.

“And I remember, especially at the end of that 2001 season, the tension. You could really sense that around the city, which is really something I think sometimes these days, you know, teams and footballers can feel detached from.

"The city was so tense throughout that time - and then there were just the biggest celebrations afterwards. I think a lot of people in Rome would say that, especially when Roma won the league title in 2001, the celebrations were bigger than when Italy won the World Cup in 2006 and flew back to the capital.

"That was a party for weeks, you know, sort of to the point where it was really hard to get to sleep, with cars honking horns all the time, mopeds just burning up and down the streets. It was just a noisy atmosphere that whole summer.”

How did you become a journalist then, if that wasn’t your path out of university?

“So I read history at university, so I like stories. I like writing about them, applying critical thinking to them. And that translated into journalism. And yeah, my passion has always been in football, and especially Italian football. And so living out there, I wanted to write about it. I could maybe string some stories to different news outlets. When I came back from Italy, I interned at the Observer Sport Monthly – and I wanted to keep my Italian, so I worked for a few websites on Italian football. And it grew from there.

“James Richardson – who presented the Football Italia shows I used to watch – got in touch one day, and I began speaking on the Guardian football podcast about Italian Football. And then when BT got the rights for Serie A, and created the European Football Show, I got invited onto that too. And so it continued.”

In the present day, then, what is your take on everything that’s happened – all the planning around a potential restart to the season?

“It’s complicated, because, in the absence of a vaccine, it's impossible to minimise risk to zero. So, the Italian Football Federation and the league are putting together as rigorous a system of protocols as possible to guarantee the safety of their employees, essentially - coaching staff and players.

“But you look at how the pandemic has hit Italy, and in particular the north, and you can understand points of view that say it’s too soon, or players that point out they have family who are on the at-risk list.

"I can understand why, you know, people are conflicted about coming back – but I think Serie A finds itself in a very delicate situation because, as a league, it is very dependent on TV rights – and they have to do their best to honour the contracts they have with broadcasters, which means fulfilling fixtures.

"Because otherwise there is a genuine risk that some top flight clubs could fold… and that’s something that cannot be taken lightly.

“I think in this adversity there is an opportunity to kind of reform some of the structural problems with Italian football. I know that the Italian Football Federation has put together a draft plan to present to the government to say look, you know, how can we make football in this country more sustainable? Whether it be by making it easier to build new stadia, which would allow clubs to perhaps have privately-owned stadia, which will in turn mean clubs can maybe make more more money... and then from that be able to spend more within a financial fair play framework. But it's it's a very, very difficult situation. It changes every day."

What is your gut instinct? Do you think we will see the season restart?

“I think the intent to restart the season is genuine, not only from the league and the Italian Football Federation, but also from the government - because I think the government appreciates how important football is to the Italian economy, in terms of how many people it employs and how much money it generates. And not just for clubs, but also for the Italian tax man too.

“But the virus is still in control, even if countries around Europe are lifting lockdowns. It’s still a calculated risk, one which is monitored every day depending on the ‘R’ rate [the rate of re-infection] and whether that can be kept below one. So it's a very changeable situation.

“I won't be surprised if we see games restarting, but I think it remains to be seen whether we get to the point where all fixtures are fulfilled – because Serie A has more games to play than any other top five league in Europe, I think. Some clubs still have 13 games to play, and that’s without the Coppa Italia to think about.

‘It's clearly very complicated. And also in terms of sporting integrity too – because these teams aren’t going to be as fit or as well-drilled as they were two months ago. But I think the priority is just to get the season finished, so the system as a whole can survive and continue, rather than so the spectacle can be as good as it possibly can be.

“Because I think if they don't fulfill these fixtures and they can't reach an agreement with the broadcasters that they have – then that financial shortfall is going to be a big problem.”

James Horncastle is Serie A correspondent for The Athletic.

You can follow him on Twitter via @JamesHorncastle.